Sunday, September 11, 2016

A Repeat: from NIKOLAI BASHMAKOV

Once again: each sentence!- HUMANLY IMPROVED English: Informational Sharing: From simple believer, Nikolai Bashmakov: (Aug.11, 2016)-: Another, Open Letter to his fellow parishioners of Holy Trinity Parish, Astoria, New York (in Russian and English)-

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Dan Everiss

<oregdan@hotmail.com>
Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 12:16 PM


Comment: The all-powerful Holy Trinity Parish Soviet, fears a legitimate general parish meeting, with the Metropolitan presiding,  as then they will be voted out, as most parishioners there, do NOT sympathize with their trouble-making. And most people in tbat parish, do not.. hate or fear the metropolitan.
And the soviet style impious methods of the pro-MP forces who have taken  control of that  Chilean parish council, [ I'e. of the  'The Cemetery Society'] and then  finally totally seizing the old-ROCOR, Santiago, Chile, Holy Trinity Church, are similar to what this parish council is doing.
May God stop them!



 ROCA: Open letter to parishioners of Holy Trinity parish in Astoria (United States)
 
Автор: Митрополит Агафангел вкл. Author: METROPOLITAN AGAFANGEL incl. . . Опубликовано в РПЦЗ (Просмотров: 651) Published in the ROCA (Views: 651)

Уважаемый отец Димитрий, уважаемые члены церковного и попечительского советов, обществ, все прихожане и все сочуствующие.

Dear Father Dimitry, distinguished members of the church and the board of trustees, societies, all the parishioners and to all  sympathizers:

Прочитал очередное последнее письмо совета к Митрополиту Агафангелу и другим членам Синода.

I read another recent letter to  Metropolitan Agafangel  and to the other members of the Synod of Bishops, from the Parish Council

Странно, что это письмо не выставили на сайте нашего прихода для всеобщего ознакомления.

It is strange that this letter was not put on the official web-site of the parish for all  the public  to read.

 Видимо забыли случайно.

Apparently this was forgotten, by accident.

В таком случае я его прикрепляю его в приложение с разрешения членов Синода, что бы всем можно было узнать, о чем в нем идет речь.

In this case, I did attach it to my open letter, for  the reading and the approval of members of the Synod, so that everyone could find out what it is about.


Никак не могу понять откуда родилась такая агрессивность у нашего церковного совета во главе с нашим священником отцом Дмитрием, по отношению к Митрополиту Агафангелу.

I can not understand how this aggressiveness was born, and coming from our church council,  headed by our priest, Father Dimitry, in relation to  Metropolitan Agafangel.

Раньше в письмах совета упоминали так же имя и отца Владимира, но слава Богу хоть сейчас вы перестали это делать.

Previously, he was  mentioned [ negatively] in the [made public] 'letters of the board',  as well, the name of priest, Father Vladimir [Petrenko],  but thank God, right now you've stopped doing that!

Странен ход ваших мыслей, то вы хотите поменять замки в церкви и в церковном доме, то вызвать на него полицию, как уже грозили, кстати и отцу Владимиру тоже, то обещаете позвонить в иммиграционный департамент и остановить его на границе.

The situation is going the way you want it to,  so that  you want to change the locks to the doors of the  the church, and in the church building, then to call the police on Vladyka Agafangel, as you have  threatened him with, by the way, and also against Father Vladimir, [Petrenko],  too, plus your threat to phone  the US Immigration Department, and to, thus  stop him [both of them?] at the border-from entering the USA. 

Может быть пора уже вам остановиться и остыть?

Maybe it's time for you to stop! and to cool down?

Самое удивительное, как может наш священник соглашаться с подобными действиями?

The most amazing thing is,  how can  our priest, [Fr. Dimitry Dobronravov] not disagree with such actions?

Вы же нарушаете клатву данную перед святым Престолом!

You have broken your oath which you gave on the holy altar.

Можете ли вы просто и членораздельно обьяснить, что такого плохого сделал Митрополит вам или приходу?

 Can you easily and articulately explain: what's so bad for our parish, regarding anything which  ​​the Metropolitan has done?

А отец Владимир?

 or, Fr.Vladimir?

Каким образом Митрополит или еще кто-то другой может завладеть имуществом, принадлежащим “вашей” и в том числе и “нашей”, как вы любите называть, “корпорации”?

How can the Metropolitan or someone else,  take possession of property belonging to, [which is]  "your's" and including "ours", as you like to call, your..."corporation"?

Вы же, я уверен, сами понимаете, что это сделать просто не реально, даже если очень сильно захотеть.

You, I'm sure know, that  what  you are doing,  is simply, not realistic, even if you have such a  very strong desire to do what you want to.

.
Вы не разрешаете Митрополиту встретиться с членами прихода и просто верующими, которые не согласны с церковным советом и его последними действиями и решениями.

You will not allow the Metropolitan,  to simply meet with members of the parish, and with just the believers, those  who do not agree with the church board and its recent actions and decisions.

Вы ищите секьюрити или каких-то добровольцев, которые преградят его путь и закроют ему вход в Храм.

You are looking for 'security'  guards,  and asking for some 'volunteers' who will block his path and  close.to him, the entrance doors to the Temple.

Позвольте спросить, а на каком основании вы это делаете?

 Let me ask you, and on what basis are you doing this?

Почему мы слепо должны вам верить?

Why should we blindly believe you?

У вас есть какие-то особые заслуги?

Do you have any special faculties of secret  knowledge [that the rest of us do not have] ?

Почему нельзя собраться всем сторонам, спокойно и мирно разобраться в этой сложившейся сегодня ужасной, вами же самими созданной, ситуации?

Why not gather all parties together in calmness and peacefulness,  so as to understand this current terrible situation today, which you yourselves have created?

Ситуации, в которую мы все попали после смерти отца Всеволода.

This  situation in which we have been all in, after the death of our Father Vsevolod.

Большинство из нас жили в СССР и жили всегда под руководством советов.

Most of us have previously lived in the Soviet Union and we have  always lived under the guidance of 'the council/ the Soviet'.

Теперь мы приехали в США и опять попали под влияние очередного совета, который становится все более и более агрессивным и ведет прихожан просто в раскол.

 Now we come to the United States, and again,  we fall under the influence of another council/soviet, which is becoming more and more aggressive and which leads the congregation exactly into a  split/schism..

Здесь вспоминаются слова Спасителя – «вы сделали Храм Божий вертепом разбойников».

 Here, I recall the words of the Savior - "You have made ​​the temple of God,  into a den of robbers."

Ведь уже дошло до того, что и молиться в нем очень многим стало невозможно!

 It has gone so far as, for us  to pray in this church, is almost very much impossible!

Я уверен, что люди просто не понимают в какой ситуации мы сегодня находимся.

I am sure that people here, do not fully realize,  what a bad situation we are actually in today. 

 Мы уже потеряли многих их них и еще потеряем многих, без всякого сомнения.

We have already lost many of them, and we will still continue to lose many more, no doubt.

Пожалуйста остановитесь и опомнитесь, прекратите рушить то, что годами создавали и сохранили для нас наши предшественники.

 Please come to your senses and stop, stop ruining that parish which for years has been created and saved by our ancestors, for us.

 Еще не поздно это сделать.

 Still it is not too late to do so.

Общее собрание с участием всех, именно всех прихожан и первоиерарха сегодня просто необходимо.

A general-parish meeting, with the participation of all, including  all the congregation and with  the participation of  our First Hierarch,  today,  is a must a necessity. 

Почему вы не хотите, что бы все имели общую встречу с нашим Митрополитом Агафангелом?

 Why you do not want, for  all to have a common meeting with our Metropolitan Agafangel?

Почему вы этого так боитесь?

What are you so afraid of?

Пожалуйста обьясните это мне, а еще лучше, пожалуйста, обьясните это всем остальным прихожанам в подробностях и деталях.

 Please explain it to me, and even better, please, explain it to all the rest of the congregation,  and in detail.

Многие из них, прихожан, не имеют информации о происходящем у нас, многие просто боятся поднять свой голос в силу своего советского воспитания и просто стесняются задать вам свои вопросы.

 Many of them, the parishioners, have no information about what is happening in our country [Russia], , and  many people simply are afraid to raise their voices, because of their Soviet upbringing, and so they  just are shy, to ask you questions.

А может быть вами кто-то руководит, кто-то ведь за этим всем стоит?

Or maybe you have somebody  who is, after all, behind all this?

Почему вы вдруг так все резко поменялись, поменялись еще и менее, чем за год?

Why have  you,  so suddenly and so dramatically changed?  and changed from even less than one year ago? 

Неужели это родилось просто на ровном месте?

Has this quick change, simply, been  'born out of the blue'?

Какую цель вы преследуете?

 What purpose are you pursuing?

Может мы что-то не знаем?

Can we do anything, we who do not know?

Записаться и стать членом прихода теперь обычному человеку стало по новым правилам не так-то и просто, оказывается теперь нужно иметь две рекомендации для этого и еще потом иметь год испытательного срока, т.е. J

To join and to become a member of the parish,  has now for the common man,  come  under the new rules. and it is not so simple, as  it depends now on,  that we need to have two recommendations for this, and then we still must have a year of probation, that is,

 как бы год быть кандидатом в члены прихода.

 like a year to be a candidate to become a member of the parish..

Что-то такое, мне кажется, где-то уже происходило.

This is something, it seems to me, which is already happening.

Вам это ничего не напоминает?

You are not remembering such things? 

Я в той партии к счастью не состоял, но историю КПСС всех нас заставляли учить в институте.

 Myself being in 'The Communist Party', I was fortunately not involved in,  but the history of the CPSU was for all of us,  that we  were forced to [ join it, if we wanted to teach]  in the institutes.

Как-то так вдруг вспомнились эти их правила приема, которые вы внедряете тут.

Somehow suddenly, you have  remembered those [Soviet]  rules of admission, and which you have implemented here.[in Holy Trinity Parish].

Надеюсь на ваш содержательный и правдивый ответ на все поставленные вопросы.

 I look forward to your information  and to your truthful answers to all questions.

Кстати, так ведь никто и никогда не ответил на вопросы заданные весьма достойными и правильными прихожанами Евгением и Петром.

 By the way, is there  no one in your council,  who can ever answer the questions put to you by our very worthy and correct parishioners,  Eugene and Peter?

Просьба ко всем получившим это письмо, очень бы хотелось услышать ваши ответы или мнения какими бы они не были.

I request that all receive this letter, and I would very much like to hear your answers or opinions, whatever they may be.

Пожалуйста отвечайте не только мне, но и на все имейл адреса, которые есть в моем имейле.

Please respond, not only to me, but also to all the email addresses that are in my e-mail list.

 Любой ответ это ответ, любое мнение это мнение, не стесняйтесь и не бойтесь, вас никто не укусит за правду.

Any answer is [just] an answer, any opinion is [just] an opinion, so do not hesitate and do not be afraid, as you will not be bitten  for telling the truth.

С искренним желанием добра и мира всем вам,

With the sincere desire of goodness and peace to all of you,

Николай Башмаков

Nikolai Bashmakov















 Russian:
.

A Repeat: from NIKOLAI BASHMAKOV: Informational Sharing: From simple believer, Nikolai Bashmakov: (Aug.11, 2016)-: Another, Open Letter to his fellow parishioners of Holy Trinity Parish, Astoria, New York (in Russian and English)-

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Add star 

Dan Everiss

<oregdan@hotmail.com>
Sun, Sep 11, 2016 at 11:29 AM


Comment: The all-powerful Holy Trinity Parish Soviet, fears a legitimate general parish meeting, with the Metropolitan presiding,  as then they will be voted out, as most parishioners there, do NOT sympathize with their trouble-making. And most people in tbat parish, do not.. hate or fear the metropolitan.
And the soviet style impious methods of the pro-MP forces who have taken  control of that  Chilean parish council, [ I'e. of the  'The Cemetery Society'] and then  finally totally seizing the old-ROCOR, Santiago, Chile, Holy Trinity Church, are similar to what this parish council is doing.
May God stop them!
.


ROCA: Open letter to parishioners Trinity parish in Astoria (United States)

Author: Metropolitan Agafangel incl. . Published in the ROCA (Views: 668)

Dear Father Dimitry, distinguished members of the church and the board of trustees, societies, all the parishioners and all the sympathy.
I read another recent letter to the Metropolitan Council Agafangel and other members of the Synod.
It is strange that this letter was not put on the site of the parish to the public. Apparently forgotten by accident.
In this case, I did attach it to the application with the approval of members of the Synod, what would everyone could find out what it is about.
I can not understand how this aggressiveness was born from our church council headed by our priest, Father Dmitry, in relation to the Metropolitan Agafangel.
Previously we mentioned in the letters of the board as well, and the name of his father, Vladimir, but thank God right now you've stopped doing it.
The country is the way you think, what you want to change the locks in the church and in the church building, then call the police on him, as has been threatened, by the way, and his father, Vladimir, too, the promise to call the Immigration Department and to stop it at the border.
Maybe it's time you stop and cool down?
The most amazing thing, how can our priest disagree with such actions?
You break klatvu given to the Holy See!
Can you easily and articulately explain what's so bad you made ​​the Metropolitan or parish? His father, Vladimir?
How Metropolitan or someone else can take possession of property belonging to "your" and including "our", as you like to call, "corporation"?
You, I'm sure you know what to do it is simply not realistic, even if the very strong desire.
You do not allow Metropolitan to meet with members of the parish and just believers who do not agree with the church board and his recent actions and decisions. You are looking for security and some volunteers who will block his path and he closed the entrance to the Temple.
Let me ask you, and on what basis are you doing this?
Why should we blindly believe you?
Do you have any special services?
Why not gather all parties calm and peaceful to understand this current terrible today, you themselves have created, a situation?
The situation in which we all were after the death of his father Vsevolod.
Most of us have lived in the Soviet Union and has always lived under the guidance of the Board. Now we come to the United States, and again fell under the influence of another council, which is becoming more and more aggressive and leads the congregation just split.
Here, I recall the words of the Savior - "you have made ​​the temple of God a den of robbers."
It has gone so far as to pray in it very much it was impossible!
I am sure that people do not realize we are today in a situation. We have already lost many of them and still lose a lot, no doubt.
Please come to your senses and stop, stop to ruin that for years have created and saved our ancestors for us. Still not too late to do so.
The general meeting with the participation of all, that all the congregation of the First Hierarch and today is a must.
Why you do not want, what would all have a common meeting with our Metropolitan Agafangel?
Why are you so afraid of?
Please Explain it to me, and even better, please, explain it to all the rest of the congregation in detail and detail. Many of them, the parishioners have no information about what is happening in our country, many people simply are afraid to raise their voices because of their Soviet upbringing and just shy to ask you questions.
Or maybe you have some body who, after all, behind all this?
Why are you suddenly so all dramatically changed, and changed even less than a year?
Is it simply born out of the blue?
What purpose are you pursuing?
Can we do something we do not know?
Join and become a member of the parish is now the common man has been under the new rules is not so simply, it turns out now we need to have two recommendations for this and then still have a year of probation, that is, like a year to be a candidate in the parish members.
Something, it seems to me, which is already happening.
You are nothing like? I'm in the party fortunately not involved, but the history of the CPSU all of us were forced to teach in the institute. Somehow suddenly remembered the rules of admission, which you implement here.
I look forward to your informative and truthful answer to all questions.
By the way, is it no one ever answered the questions put to very worthy and correct parishioners Eugene and Peter.
Request to all received this letter, I would very much like to hear your answers or opinions whatever they may be.
Please respond not only to me but also to all the email addresses that are in my E-mail. Any answer is the answer, any opinion is an opinion, do not hesitate and do not be afraid, you will not bite for the truth.
With the sincere desire of goodness and peace to all of you,
Nikolai Bashmakov
The response to this appeal:
Save Lord Nicholas and all who are not indifferent to the fate of the ROCA!
Yes indeed, the letter of the Church Council to Metropolitan Astoria, sound is not a Christian. Unfortunately opponents Vl Agafangel write a lot of hurtful insults and accusations but neither time nor heard the call to prayer !!! I not heard and no significant violations of holy canons by Vladyka Metropolitan, which would give reason to depart from the ROCOR and not go to the sin of schism, which is not "redeemed with the blood of martyrdom"
Do all who are involved in this conspiracy do not know what says Holy Church in this situation? "If someone from the clergy annoy the bishop let him be deposed, for" the ruler of your people but do not speak of evil "(Acts 23: 5.)." The Bishop as the successor of the Apostles, the laying on of hands and calling the St Spirit, was successively given to him by God's power to bind and loose, there is a living image of God on earth and, in ministering the power of the Holy Spirit, a rich source of all the sacraments of the Universal Church, which purchased salvation "( Determination of the Jerusalem Council in 1672 repeated in the 10 tsp. Epistle of the Eastern Patriarchs in 1723). Zonaras in the interpretation of rights 13. Second Council says that the bishop in the spiritual sense is the father of the presbyter. All presbyter priest committed to them under the authority of the bishop. Thus, through the priests, the bishop's grace acts is the reason, according to which imposed a severe punishment, as the eruption of a grave sin offending cleric bishop Average Up 39....; 4 I will dwell. 8; 6 instill. 34
Maybe we cross -m Soviet formula. e. Who is not with us is against us! ??? All that is happening around Metropolitan Agafangel reminds Me words of Metropolitan Photius, located in eucharistic communion with the ROCA on a similar situation in the Bulgarian Church: "All these contentions are not for the purity of Orthodoxy, and the struggle for power"
And the Holy Gospel teaches us all:
"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy."
But I tell you: Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for those who persecute you; may be sons of your Father in heaven ... "(Mt 5,43-45.)" And as ye would that do to you people, and you shall do with nimi.I if you love those who love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love their lyubyat.I if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to? for sinners also lend delayut.I if you are giving to those from whom you hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much zhe.No you, Love your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for he is kind to the ungrateful and zlym.I so be merciful, just as your Father is merciful "(Lk. 6,31-36).
With God
Reader Sergius and family
***
I agree with Nicholas letter.
We need a conversation Metropolitan Agafangel c parishioners at Holy Trinity Church.
And it's just crazy to avoid priests in the temple.
We need to stop and examples we are Orthodox Christians.
R. b. Stanislav.
***
Dear Nicholas,
Thank you for raising this issue. Thank you for prvilno requiring urgent response, questions to the church board.
Totally agree with you.
I just want to add that the current split provoked by the church board of a betrayal of the blessed memory of Father Vsevolod, a betrayal of all that what he taught us, what he brought us.
Brothers and sisters, let us pray to the Lord Our compre, ask him skhiskhozhdeniya us ask the Lord to send peace to our hearts, we who created such evil contention.
Sincerely,
Oleg Vishnevsky
***
The situation is tragic, dangerous, disgusting.
If you are not religious, and corporate laws in the Church, the Church
divided to infinity and as a result disappears.
It strashno.No more frightening is that the church as the Body of Christ, even
It consists of us- individually with the souls that God gave
As a priceless gift to each of nas.Chto becomes a congregation souls whose
Church disappear, or enmity and hatred fills the hearts of the congregation?
I am sure that neither revolutions, nor barricades should not be in the Church
Hristovoy.A if they appeared, the church desecrated, sore at heart
Himself Gospoda.I what if God had come down to earth
sinful, to shed his blood for us sinless, and commanded the creation of
Church, the gates of which no one can destroy?
And if you destroy the Church from within, breaking all the laws and values ​​of wind?
Whom and What to ask?
And all Christians know and with whom there is no Kem.I two mneniy.Est True
The LORD, or knowing the commandments of Christ, narushaem.Ili mice are not Christians
altogether.
The choice is not great, but there is a choice at all.

* Give us a cruel Lord,
To know You, even in the bed. *
***
Dear Nicholas and all those who responded to his letter,
Thank you for starting this conversation. Unfortunately, we are so accustomed to distortions in this mortal world, we can not fix that involuntarily retreat in matters that directly affect us and come to our own house under the pressure of Activism affected irrationality of these actions. It is therefore crucial that Nicholas its letter spodvignul us all to the statement of our opinion.
With regard to the last letter to the board, the most surprised me is not even an appeal to the US law, which, apparently, unfamiliar Board members, and the obvious contradiction between the letter and number of previous statements the board. First of all, I remember the words (convey their idea because, as I understand) that I heard two weeks ago in Astoria from the mayor and council member Anatoly: "People need to discuss the accumulated probelmy", as well as the definition of "lyubonachalie", which was read out about. Dimitri. Also recall pritenzii Council to the Lord that he is rarely seen in the United States.
And then, when it falls vozmonost meet personally with the person to whom the council has pritenzii, and find out some painful questions in person, looking into each other's eyes, after the common prayer to the Lord, rather than to refer to the principle of catholicity (as offered in previous letters) and convene a meeting of the parish, to make statements on the avoidance of the Church in her First Hierarch of the temple and nepustimosti poihoda convening the meeting.
This position is at least puzzling and casts doubt on the sincerity and authenticity of all previous statements, porazhdennyh in the depths of such a council. Why advice is afraid of the meeting? Why not use the opportunity to clarify misunderstandings and disagreements in a simple conversation? Alas, such a position directly falls under the definition of "lyubonachalie" zachitanne about. Dimitri.
But the presence of inaccurate and unreliable information, which requires speedy fix, clearly there that can show at least for this simple example. In a private conversation between myself and two members of the council, they have repeatedly expressed their approval of the content of. Vladimir is assigned to the parish. I had a reverse information that o.Vladimira content took the Synod. Later, I found a mention that about. Vladimir "refused content from the parish" in the letter is. Agafangel dated 20 June (!) ( Http://internetsobor.org/rptsz/tserkovnye-novosti/rptsz/mitropolit-agafangel-obrashchenie-k-chlenam-svyato-troitskogo-prikhoda-v-astorii ). My conversation with the members of the Board took place on 31 July. If for more than a month, at least two members of the Board to use the information, which is contrary to the published data, it is a distortion and misunderstanding must somehow be urgently corrected. I'm sure there are other distortions and misunderstandings.
And how can you identify the distortions and misunderstandings, if not in direct conversation? I am very nadeyaslya the continuation of a conversation concerning about. Vladimir is on arrival. Metropolitan, believing in the direct conversation Boden found so necessary to all of us a compromise. But it can be done, if the council is afraid to even begin such a dialogue?
By the way, one of the arguments to justify the Council that they have not responded to my previous letter, there was unwillingness to complex conversations intrenet and prefer personal communication (although I have to both letters mentioned that to me is extremely difficult to come personally to Astoria as health). Agree that after the rejection in a personal meeting with a man who did many thousands of miles from Odessa to make this possible, Swimming, this position becomes compromised (like many other statements made during this time by the Board).
I have to admit that, despite my warm attitude towards the members of the Council, whom I know personally, the Board's position on the meeting seems to me doubtful, and gives me confidence. That, alas, in turn casts doubt on all the other points and arguments that have been raised by the Board in recent years.
Save me, God!
Eugene.
PS
Even so I hope for some kind of a written response to the appeals board of the congregation, whose interests should be protected by this Council.

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