Thursday, February 16, 2017

for Reflection: A must-hear presentation against Western prosylitism to Coptic Orthodox

A General Sharing for Reflection: "A must-hear presentation by a Coptic Orthodox Priest" (mainly, against Western Originated Protestant/Roman Catholic prosylitism to Coptic Orthodox people, and related subjects)


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Dan Everiss

Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 9:44 PM

And my added personal experience and comment on the Coptic Church and its members:

I basically agree here with Bp. Auxentius, on this issue, though he often refers to 'extremists',  which pejorative terminology I do not understand, as he tends to broadly over-utilize it.  He seems to use this approach often, to label some whom he personally disagrees with... or those who have had personal and hostile disputes with himself or with his mentor, retired Bp. Chrysostom of Etna.

In Orthodoxy, one is either Orthodox, or one is not. 

And too, if one is firmly Orthodox, one must state boldly when needed, and to defend our Orthodox Faith when it is under assault, as it is now in this massive world-wide apostasy,... and which in our constantly under attack, Russian Orthodox Church Abroad, we MUST do,  what one  understands as Orthodox and what is NOT, no matter who may be displeased, and not be  'man-pleasers' just to be popular, or 'liked. ' Ecumenist, sell-out-false Orthodoxy is all about pleasing this world, and to seek the praise of men.

And thus, to strongly and vigorously defend Orthodoxy,-THAT IS NOT "EXTREMISM"!
"Ye cannot please man and God!", and "The praise of men is enmity to God!"

But beyond that, of course, there are many divergent opinions  about particular church problems or local arguments, and also, there are personality conflicts too, as the Earthly Church is composed of we frail human beings,. all imperfect....and that includes bishops and priests.

The Coptics [descendants of the real historic Egyptian race, mostly early Christianized  long before the later Arab-Moslem mass-invasion of their ancient  land ]  are very close to us, in basic piety and belief and worship.

Many years ago, in the mid 1960's, in Los Angeles I had some Coptic friends and I visited their church to witness their worship.

They are actually far more reverent in church, than we are- in general. Then they used Coptic and some Arabic in their worship. But in whatever country they now have fled to, [ today all over the world] they soon begin to use the local language in their worship,  & to reach out to the local people, as they have tremendous missionary  zeal.

On an average Sunday, in Los Angeles, they all came to their packed church several hours before their liturgy, to chant in unison the entire Psalter in a congregational lilting ancient Egyptian chant.

This they did, simply.... to prepare themselves spiritually ......for the liturgy, at which many took Holy Communion.

Their church and its worship were at the center of their lives.

Do we do that?

Nothing in their liturgy or their rituals,  [ which text in the liturgy books which were available to visitors, they had printed on opposite pages in Coptic and English] could I find anything which is offensive to Orthodoxy.

And, they take off their shoes in their church, as it is 'holy ground'.

Some  claim, [ but on that subject I am not an expert],  that the only real historical theological argument back then, was a matter of terminology/wording , not of an essential Orthodox understanding:  i.e. that Christ is both fully God and fully Man which doctrine they totally  agree to. The past arguments had to do, in Greek,  with 'persons' and 'natures'.... and their relationships.

Yet, never-the-less, we and they are separated.

And too, we need to remember, the  cultural basis/prejudices  of them not accepting the Byzantine Council of Chalcedon, -that they, all true blooded & culturally Egyptians,  did not want to be under Byzantine-Greek  domination [ though their Coptic liturgical language is heavily Greek and in the Greek alphabet] and under and within the Byzantine Empire. Soon after, however, the Moslem-Arabs invaded Egypt and put them under centuries of their miserable dark Islamic terror and oppression....which is still on-going now.

May God help them, in this time of their severe suffering!

Their current and past  persecutions they take as God's  just punishment on them, for their sins....the basic biblical understanding.

Not only are they under continued Moslem cultural and violent assaults, but also spiritual assaults from the Pope of Rome's  and the Protestant's  'missionaries'.

The ones that I had contact with back then, had a warm sympathy to us, especially to the Russian church.

Rd. Daniel on Oregon

Warning: It is a bit hard to focus and read the rapidly-running  English translation from the priest's Arabic speech, on the bottom of this video, as that script seems to duplicate/override  & repeat itself, unnecessarily. Why?- I do not know.

From: Saint Edward Brotherhood <>
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 1:44 PM
Subject: A must-hear presentation by a Coptic Orthodox Priest

Begin forwarded message:

From: Bishop Auxentios of Etna
Subject: A must-hear presentation by a Coptic Orthodox Priest
Date: 15 February 2017 20:17:23 GMT

The Meeting of the Lord 2017
Dear Clergy, Faithful, and Friends:
     Съ Праздникомъ and Χρόνια Πολλά for the Feast.
     The attached answer, at a gathering of Coptic Orthodox believers, to a very significant question from one of the faithful is a most impressive response to the heterodox [ especially to the Protestants] regarding our Orthodox claims to historical and dogmatic primacy in the Christian world. It should be watched many times over by our own faithful. It was sent to me by one of our lower clergy, a well-educated and studious man soon to be ordained to the first level of the Priesthood (the Diaconate).
     Copts are, of course, are separated from us true-believing Orthodox by a long-standing Christological heresy. As for those fond of such language, it is beyond dispute that they are heretics, [though they do confess that Christ is BOTH perfect God and perfect MAN] in that they have not openly rejected those dogmatic errors that separate us, even if many of them cautiously accept in private the deficiency of their non-Chalcedonian proclivities. Nonetheless, they are closest to us in their beliefs and are the inheritors of an undeniable and rich Orthodox piety in spiritual practice.
     There are extremists, of course, who, lacking the love with which we must approach piously misled heretics, would say that the Coptic clergyman speaking here has nothing to say to us Orthodox (though ironically, his comments concern extremism). Such individuals need not listen. As for the more open-minded and thinking anti-ecumenists among us, his observations are especially relevant for us, addressing, as they do, two things: one, the blasphemy and outrage of widespread Protestant proselytism in the East among Orthodox Christians (their Fathers in the Faith, from whom they have been separated for centuries); and two, the blasphemy of preaching, by us Genuine Orthodox, against other Christians with hatred and vulgarity, instead of leading them again to the Orthodoxy from which they are separated. (And, indeed, if there is any place for dialogue, it is between us and the non-Chalcedonians. Peace to the fanatic preachers of hatred and extremists among  whom would rather proclaim them lost than try to save them!)
     I am struck by the fact that a Coptic Orthodox Christian, separated from us Genuine Orthodox by an ancient Christological heresy, shares with us an understanding of a commitment to Holy Tradition and a resistance to the perfidious hypocrisy of ecumenism (a movement of Protestant origin endorsed by Roman Catholicism and by its own extensive proselytism in Orthodox lands). This separates him from world Orthodoxy, just as it does us. Imagine, as a consequence, what this says of the distance between Genuine Orthodox and the ecumenical frenzy that has overtaken “world Orthodoxy” and its modernism and innovation. Even a non-Chalcedonian Copt is closer to the Truth of Orthodoxy, in some ways, than the Orthodox ecumenists. This should cause us great fright, as these same ecumenists call us extremists, fanatics, half-wits, and cretins.
     How, indeed, do the Orthodox ecumenists justify themselves, even when a clergyman from a Church condemned for heresy sees the folly of their actions and direction?
     Least Among Monks, † Bp. Auxentios
P.S. The translation of the Arabic is at times poor, but the message is quite clear. 

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