ith Joanna-My Communications With Joseph Suaiden, etc.
Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:45 PM
From:
"Dan Everiss" <oregdan@hotmail.com>
To:
"Joanna Higginbotham" <cyn38ia@yahoo.com>, oregdan@hotmail.com
Joanna, this is to response to your email this evening, about Hilarion-Kapral receiving Western Rite clergy.... from the Milan Synod, etc. (a blow to the Greek-Old Calendar Synod!, the "Milan Synod").
The below is my and Joseph Suaiden's emails. I try to give Western Rite loving/supporting Joseph Suaiden SOME respect for his pro-Western Rite stance, but I personally do not have any use for it. But, as to the separate matter of our enemy H.-Kapral of ROCOR-MP openly/officially accepting it in America.
(which previously, it was NOT openly or widely known that ROCOR did bless or approve of it, as not many years back, when Bp. Kyrill-Dimitieff privately tried to get it approved for his diocese, was shot down!... by most ROCOR bishops, including Laurus and Chicago Archb. Alipy)....
AAH! that is a different matter, and in this case, his, Met. Hilarion-Kapral's MOTIVES.... DO matter.
I believe that he does indeed accept it as a valid-Orthodox ritual option to what we know as Normal-Orthodox-Worship, but.... I believe that he is wrong. Again, as to what St. John Maximovitch initially had in mind, when he blessed it for France, etc....... could it be that he..... (though proclaimed a saint later on)....made a mistake? I think so. Only God makes no mistakes, while saints make LOTS of mistakes, which is what makes them saints, and not God!
OR, another possibility: maybe it worked for (Catholic) France, but cannot work HERE & NOW in other countries? But, I must concede, as I do here for Joseph Suaiden, that ...I.... cannot say FOR SURE ...if it is acceptable for SOME.
For me, it is.... worthless, and I cannot see it as good in America, with it's basic underlying Protestant culture. Protestants don't need or want "Popish rituals". Plain normal ORTHODOX worship, is just fine, except that we Americans need it in our English language.
But, as I said to this Joseph, I don't (really cannot) approve of ANYTHING that apostate former-bishops, do or say about ANYTHING! and that includes this matter.
And, I apologize for not yet responding to your other recent email. I shall try to get to it this eve.
I suspect, that Joseph Suaiden is questioning my MOTIVE in sharing with him, that listserv article about this occurence. He... may... think that I shared it in order to... rile him, or to push it in his face, etc.-? But, of course not! He was merely one among several whom I shared it with. And anyway, as he is semi-on our side in other general issues, I often share with him various church news items. But, he is apparently extra sensitive on all news which deal with his pet Western Rite matters. He belongs to this "Milan Synod".
As you no doubt noticed this eve, he put his reply to me (his letter below here) on listserv.
Rd. Daniel
From: oregdan@hotmail.com
To: joseph.suaiden@gmail.com; oregdan@hotmail.com
Subject: RE: Russian Church Abroad receives two Western Rite priests from Milan Synod/Response-Rd. Daniel
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 13:28:12 -0600
Dear Reader Joseph,
Well........ for starters, I... do not approve of ANTHING! which the apostate-betrayers-to-the-KGB run Moscow Patriarchy, say or do.
And, I am all to painfully aware of their motives for doing whatever they do: POWER and INFLUENCE.... and seeking the praise of men. I already did know, that Met. Hilarion-Kapral had accepted the validity of Western Rite, etc. I am not sure that I can or do. BUT!.... bowing to your greater knowledge and wisdom on that complicated and very loaded subject, subject, I concede that MAYBE! it can be a legitimate expression of Orthodox worship.... but I personally have many reservations. As to all that you here go into depth about, what you relate is indeed informative to me, and mostly info that I previously new nada about. As to the various defections of clergy and laity TO the MP or it's surrogate ROCOR-MP, whether Western Rite... or otherwise, yes, I find this utterly disgusting in the extreme! There is a world-wide power-grab going on, and it's higher-level agenda has to do with current Russian-Imperialism, USING Orthodoxy to further Putin and his gang's political/military/economic goals, around the world.
Mr. Hilarion-Kapral and his gang, are just newly acquired tentacles of this octopus.
Now, I expect that in other ROCOR-MP dioceses, there will emerge other officially-blessed Western Rite clergy and parishes.(perhaps, with the hope of capturing succently unhappy Episcopalians?
My (former) old friend, Archb. Kyrill-Dmitrieff of San Francisco, has privately LONG favored Western Rite, and one fellow whom I know well, in Williams, Oregon, Fr. George Young. ("Church of the Holy Spirit, the Paraclete") ....I believe... is already (up to now- secretly), blessed by Kyrill.
I attended one liturgy that Fr. George performed years ago, in what he calls his "Gallican Rite", which was such a jumble of daily-movable antiphons, that I could not understand it, until it came to the Eucharistic Canon. When he serves alone, he serves in Latin.
As a person, I liked Fr. George, ordained, he said, by that French Orthodox Church "bishop.... St. Denis... something" (my memory is gone), but his firmness in Orthodoxy is shaky, and I came to the conclusion that he is merely... playing-church. He is still an un-reconstructed pre-Vatican II Roman Catholic at heart.
So, all that you tell me here, I do find interesting, yes.
Regardless of what rituals are used, what I see as of far more important significance these days, is TRUTHFULNESS/HONESTY/REAL GODLINESS, none of which I can decipher in much of worldly-Orthodoxy and especially NOT in those submitted to Moscow.
Obviously, this 'Fr. Ambrose' is part of this falseness.
Reader Daniel Everiss in Oregon oregdan@hotmail.com
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 14:53:17 -0400
From: joseph.suaiden@gmail.com
To: reader_daniel@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Fw: Russian Church Abroad receives two Western Rite priests from Milan Synod
CC: danielolson@cox.net; elmagerov@juno.com; oregdan@hotmail.com; frjohnsmelic@hotmail.com; cyberia@hughes.net; cyn38ia@yahoo.com; presvictor@yahoo.com
Dear Reader Daniel,
You consider this good or bad news? He had already allowed Western Rite Orthodoxy, as there was already Western Rite Orthodoxy in ROCOR since 1991. And it was bad. Our Church was the only church allowing true pre-schism uses, not Roman Catholic or Anglican garbage like Fr James Deschene using the Tridentine in North America, or Fr Michael Wood using the Anglican in Australia, or Fr Anthony Nelson in Oklahoma?
So there was "Western Rite Orthodoxy"-- bad Western Rite Orthodoxy-- long before this (in violation of the 1978 ban, I think it was) until they stole a priest from us underhandedly. (One priest. Father Aidan had left for the Church Abroad five years ago but was only give cheirothesia now to "pump up" ROCOR's sinking numbers.) They became irritated because of Fr Elia and others in our Church "agitating" and I sense they need warm bodies behind those altars. They tried to secretly pretend that Fr Cuthbert was *already* part of ROCOR (without reception!) until people found out and exposed the ruse to our Bishop, who immediately suspended him from services with in our diocese, forcing his reception as well for the "sake" of his "parish".
So at least now, they use real Western Orthodox services, have left the real Orthodox Church of the West, and we lost one priest.
Not big news. Just offensive in the way they publicized it as such.
Reader Joseph Suaiden
P.S. Father Ambrose is obsessed with our destruction. I had a fight with him over a couple of weeks and hundreds of emails until I demanded for him to stop and to not write because I am adding him to the junk mail folder. He finally stopped.
On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 2:30 PM, Daniel Everiss <reader_daniel@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hilarion-Kapral Officially Allows, in America, "Western Rite Orthodoxy", in his ROCOR-MP jurisdiction,as he had previously blessed in Australia
--- On Sun, 10/26/08, Fr Ambrose <emrys@GLOBE.NET.NZ> wrote:
From: Fr Ambrose <emrys@GLOBE.NET.NZ>
Subject: Russian Church Abroad receives two Western Rite priests from Milan Synod
Date: Sunday, October 26, 2008, 12:25 AM
---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
Sender: Orthodox Christianity <orthodox@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Poster: Fr Ambrose <emrys@GLOBE.NET.NZ>
Subject: Russian Church Abroad receives two Western Rite priests from
Milan Synod
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Russian Church Abroad receives two Western Rite priests from Milan Synod
On Sept. 18, 2008, Fr. Hieromonk Aidan (Keller), formerly of the
old-calendarist Synod of Milan, was received into the bosom of the Russian
Orthodox Church Outside Russia by Metropolitan Hilarion of New York. His
ordination was regularised, and he was assigned to the Diocese of Eastern
America and New York. Fr. Aidan has been
blessed by Metr. Hilarion (Sept.
26, 2008) to celebrate services according to the Sarum use of the Roman
rite, using the full line of liturgical books published by St. Hilarion
Press and which are due for re-issue under the aegis of the Russian
Orthodox Church.
Shortly afterward, on Sept. 29, 2008, Fr. Hieromonk Cuthbert (Pierce),
formerly of the old-calendarist Synod of Milan, was received into the
Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia, also by Metropolitan Hilarion. His
ordination was regularised and he was assigned to serve the same diocese at
the Holy Cross Hermitage in Jacksonville, Florida. Fr. Cuthbert, who will
now be known as Hieromonk David, was blessed by the Metr. to celebrate
services according to the Sarum use of the Roman rite, using the line of
liturgical books and materials printed at St. Gregory's Press in New
Jersey.
_________________________________
Oremus: Roman Rite in the Orthodox Church
http://www.sarisburium.blogspot.com
.....
No comments:
Post a Comment
Guest comments MAYBE can be made by email.
joannahigginbotham@runbox.com
Anonymous comments will not be published. Daniel will not see unpublished comments. If you have a message for him, you need to contact him directly.
oregdan@hotmail.com