Friday, July 29, 2016

TWO ARTICLES of Church Fathers

Just For Thought: A Sharing: TWO ARTICLES: first one: by St. Cyprian of Carthage:-"To Rogatianus, Concerning the Deacon Who Contended Against the Bishop", /and- "What The Holy Fathers Say About Schism"-


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Dan Everiss

Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 1:27 PM

NOTE: The only just cause for any of us to separate ourselves from our lawful bishop, 'to wall ourselves off  from him' is if HE BECOMES AN APOSTATE from our Holy Orthodox Catholic and Apostolic Church. Of course that was the case with those bishops and clergy who in 2007, betrayed our church to the Sergianists of the MP. They became apostates. But, that situation is not the case with our honorable  and solidly Orthodox and pious, Metropolitan Agafangel or of our other honorable Synod of Bishops. Also, the fallacious and malicious accusations of the trouble-makers, claiming that the Metropolitan and  our Synod,   have 'violated various canons' are bogus, and unproven, utterly. They are simply slanders and lies.

Any one who believes such naïve rubbish, is a co-fool with them, and a co-wrecker of our struggling ROCA flock.

The sshism-makers have fanned what were simply, individual differences of opinion or opposing perspectives on various specific local church matters, mainly here in N. America, into a full blown schism. And too, some here have swallowed the Putin propaganda, that what he did in Ukraine was SOMEHOW..JUSTIFIED. THAT WAR HAS SPLIT OUR FLOCK.

Yet, illogically, our Metropolitan and our Bishops are being held to account,
 -that they have not blessed Putin's evil bloody immoral war against fellow Orthodox Christians! This clearly at least some of these schism makers do seem to believe. They like V. Putin!


 Concerning the Deacon Who Contended Against the Bishop
St. Cyprian of Carthage
To Rogatianus, Concerning the Deacon Who Contended Against the Bishop

Argument.— Cyprian Warns the Bishop Rogatianus to Restrain the Pride of the Deacon Who Had Provoked Him with His Insults, and to Compel Him to Repent of His Boldness; Taking Occasion to Repeat Once More Whatever He Has Said in the Previous Letter, About the Sacerdotal or Episcopal Power.

1. Cyprian to his brother Rogatianus, greeting.

I and my colleagues who were present with me were deeply and grievously distressed, dearest brother, on reading your letter in which you complained of your deacon, that, forgetful of your priestly station, and unmindful of his own office and ministry, he had provoked you by his insults and injuries.  And you indeed have acted worthily, and with your accustomed humility towards us, in rather complaining of him to us; although you have power, according to the vigour of the episcopate and the authority of your See, whereby you might be justified on him at once, assured that all we your colleagues would regard it as a matter of satisfaction, whatever you should do by your priestly power in respect of an insolent deacon, as you have in respect of men of this kind divine commands.  Inasmuch as the Lord God says in Deuteronomy, “And the man that will do presumptuously, and will not hearken unto the priest or the judge, whoever he shall be in those days, that man shall die; and all the people, when they hear, shall fear, and shall no more do impiously.”  And that we may know that this voice of God came forth with His true and highest majesty to honour and avenge His priests; when three of the ministers — Korah, Dathan, and Abiram — dared to deal proudly, and to exalt their neck against Aaron the priest, and to equal themselves with the priest set over them; they were swallowed up and devoured by the opening of the earth, and so immediately suffered the penalty of their sacrilegious audacity.  Nor they alone, but also two hundred and fifty others, who were their companions in boldness, were consumed by a fire breaking forth from the Lord, that it might be proved that God's priests are avenged by Him who makes priests.  In the book of Kings also, when Samuel the priest was despised by the Jewish people on account of his age, as you are now, the Lord in wrath exclaimed, and said, “They have not rejected you, but they have rejected me.”  And that He might avenge this, He set over them Saul as a king, who afflicted them with grievous injuries, and trod on the people, and pressed down their pride with all insults and penalties, that the despised priest might he avenged by divine vengeance on a proud people.

2. Moreover also Solomon, established in the Holy Spirit, testifies and teaches what is the priestly authority and power, saying, “Fear the Lord with all your soul, and reverence His priests;" and again, “Honour God with all your soul, and honour His priests.” Sirach 7:29,31  Mindful of which precepts, the blessed Apostle Paul, according to what we read in the Acts of the Apostles, when it was said to him, “Do you revile thus God's high priest? ”answered and said, “I knew not, brethren, that he was the high priest; for it is written, You shall not speak evil of the ruler of your people.”  Moreover, our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, our King, and Judge, and God, even to the very day, of His passion observed the honour to priests and high priests, although they observed neither the fear of God nor the acknowledgment of Christ.  For when He had cleansed the leper, He said to him, “Go, show yourself to the priest, and offer the gift.”  With that humility which taught us also to he humble, He still called him a priest whom He knew to be sacrilegious; also under the very sting of His passion, when He had received a blow, and it was said to Him, “Do you answer the high priest so?”  He said nothing reproachfully against the person of the high priest, but rather maintained His own innocence saying, “If I have spoken evil, bear witness of the evil; but if well, why do you smite me?”  All which things were therefore done by Him humbly and patiently, that we might have an example of humility and patience; for He taught that true priests were lawfully and fully to be honoured, in showing Himself such as He was in respect of false priests.

3. But deacons ought to remember that the Lord chose apostles, that is, bishops and overseers; while apostles appointed for themselves deacons after the ascent of the Lord into heaven, as ministers of their episcopacy and of the Church. But if we may dare anything against God who makes bishops, deacons may also dare against us by whom they are made; and therefore it behooves the deacon of whom you write to repent of his audacity, and to acknowledge the honour of the priest, and to satisfy the bishop set over him with full humility.  For these things are the beginnings of heretics, and the origins and endeavours of evil-minded schismatics; — to please themselves, and with swelling haughtiness to despise him who is set over them.  Thus they depart from the Church — thus a profane altar is set up outside — thus they rebel against the peace of Christ, and the appointment and the unity of God.  But if, further, he shall harass and provoke you with his insults, you must exercise against him the power of your dignity, by either deposing him or excommunicating him.  For if the Apostle Paul, writing to Timothy, said, “Let no man despise your youth,” how much rather must it be said by your colleagues to you, Let no man despise your age?  And since you have written, that one has associated himself with that same deacon of yours, and is a partaker of his pride and boldness, you may either restrain or excommunicate him also, and any others that may appear of a like disposition, and act against God's priest.  Unless, as we exhort and advise, they should rather perceive that they have sinned and make satisfaction, and suffer us to keep our own purpose; for we rather ask and desire to overcome the reproaches and injuries of individuals by clemency and patience, than to punish them by our priestly power.  I bid you, dearest brother, ever heartily farewell.



 *Article found on:<> 'What the Holy Fathers Say About Schism':

My added comment: 

What spiritual schism-tragedy which is now happening inside of our ROCA, is not at all, a justified 'reform' movement to make our church 'better', etc. or to 'free it from tyrannical bishops', etc., but it is a full blown immoral, uncalled for, and anti-Orthodox  impious SCHISM...which will gain for those making it, unless they repent, a place in Hell and now,  the total destruction of our ROCA  local earthly current church life, HERE.

THAT IS ORTHODOX TEACHING!...who likes it, or those who would dare to make up their own version of Orthodoxy! 

And this dark reality goes way beyond any personal/ human  errors of individual persons, personal disagreements or insults or hurt feelings, etc,. coming from  either bishops, priests, or laity.

May all those currently who are sadly and pathetically involved in organizing this unjustified rebellion, [ by phone calls and holding meetings] STOP and consider what you are really being a part of, and REPENT.

Those involved in this useless mess, and soul-killing activity, are not ..creating a new PURER local valid Orthodox church, [as they seem to see as their 'holy and righteous effort'], 

etc...rather but a lawless vagante graceless SCHISM para-synagogue which is ..condemned by all the Saints of God.

Wake up, and stop, and repent! ...IF you really believe that there is a God?...DO YOU???
An historical side note: In all of Church history, ALL heresies and schisms start with the battle cry: "To REFORM the church, so that it is  more pure, better, more holy", etc.

All schismatics and heretics consider their new organizations, as BETTER than, more pure than,  The Church.. and its God ordained and empowered, bishops, and so do these current deluded schism makers inside  of our ROCA.

WHERE did any of them learn basic Orthodoxy???..or do they even care?
When they die, their very names will be Thrice-Cursed, not blessed.. and no one will pray for their souls' salvation.

For such persons, it would have been better, HAD THEY NEVER BEEN BORN! 

MY views on all this do not matter. Only what the Orthodox Church teaches- that is what matters.
Elderly retired Reader Daniel Everiss in Oregon, very dismayed by this unnecessary man-made chaos in our ROCA.

May God save us...from ourselves!

"Where the Bishop is, THERE IS THE CHURCH!"
We are not Orthodox Christians, [of any nationality] if ....we who call ourselves, 'Orthodox Christians', if...we do not obey our rightful Bishop!

HE.... has the last & final word, always, no matter how many 'meetings' we hold or how the majority votes in those meetings go, which includes the decisions/edicts of any Parish Council/Soviet, ...if the Bishop does not accept or CONFIRM their decisions/requests. Also he can dismiss them, if he chooses.

They have no power or authority, if they oppose the bishop, NONE!

 The Holy Fathers On Schism:
Автор: Монахиня Вера вкл. Author: NUN VERA  . . Опубликовано в Труды отцов Церкви (Просмотров: 30) Published in Proceedings of the Church Fathers (Views: 30)
Священномученик Иларион (Троицкий):

Hieromartyr Hilarion (Troitsky):

«Церковь едина, и одна она только имеет всю полноту благодатных даров Святого Духа.

 "The Church is one, and only one, it is the fullness of the grace of the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Кто и каким бы образом ни отступал от Церкви — в ересь, в раскол, в самочинное сборище, он теряет причастие благодати Божией» (Письмо Р. Гардинеру),

 Who, anyone, would  and by whatever means, shall take a  path which deviates/ separates  from the Church, he is in  - heresy, a  part of a  schism, blending  into a gathering  of arbitrariness,  and he thus   loses the sacrament/gift  of God's grace "(Letter R. Gardiner)

«знаем мы и убеждены в том, что отпадение от Церкви в раскол ли, в ересь ли, в сектантство ли — есть полная погибель и духовная смерть.

 "We know and believe that in the act of  falling away from the Church into schism,  there is a heresy, a dissolving  into sectarianism - and in so doling, there is  complete destruction and spiritual death, for those participating in it.

 Для нас нет христианства вне Церкви.


Если Христос создал Церковь и Церковь — Тело Его, то оторваться от Тела Его — значит умереть» (О жизни в Церкви).

 If Christ created the Church and the Church - is His body, then to break away from His Body -means  to die "(Life in the Church).

Блаженный Августин:
 Saint Augustine:
«мы веруем во святую соборную Церковь.
 "We believe in the Holy Catholic Church."
Однако еретики и раскольники также называют свои общины церквами.
 However, heretics and schismatics also call their communities,  'churches'.
 Но еретики, ложно мысля о Боге, искажают саму веру, а раскольники беззаконными разделениями отступают от братской любви, хотя верят в то же самое, что и мы.
But heretics, holding false ideas about God, distort the Faith itself, and schismatic  lawless divisions, are a  retreating from brotherly love, but, otherwise,[ or so they imagine]  they  believe in the same things that we do.
 Поэтому ни еретики не принадлежат вселенской Церкви, которая любит Бога, ни раскольники не принадлежат к ней» (О символе веры, Х).
Therefore, neither do  heretics  belong to the Universal Church, which  loves God, nor do the dissenters [the schismatics]  belong to it "(On the Creed, X).

Сщмч. Hieromartyr. Игнатий Богоносец:
 Ignatius of Antioch:
«Не обольщайтесь, братья мои!
 "Make no mistake, my brothers!
 Кто следует за вводящим раскол, тот не наследует Царствия Божьего» (Послание к филадельфийцам,
4). Those who follow the misleading divisions/schisms, CANNOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD" (Letter to the Philadelphians 4).

Свт. St. Киприан Карфагенский:
Cyprian of Carthage:

«усилия еретиков и зломыслящих раскольников начинаются обыкновенно с самоугождения, соединенного с надменным и гордым презрением к предстоятелю.
 "The efforts of heretics and schismatics,  customarily  usually begin with self-indulgence, coupled with a haughty and proud contempt for the primate/bishop."
 Так совершается отступление от Церкви и осквернение алтаря, так возмущается мир Христов, чиноположение и единство Божие» (Письмо к Рогациану).
Thus, their actions are a departure from the Church and a desecration of the altar,[ of all that is holy],  which  so outrages the peace of Christ, and the ordained clergy,  and the unity of God "(Letter to Rogatsianu).

Свт. St. Иоанн Златоуст:
St. John Chrysostom:

«производить разделения в Церкви не меньшее зло, как и впадать в ереси…грех раскола не смывается даже мученической кровью» (Толкование на послание к Ефесянам: 65, 11).
 "To make the separation/schism  is not a small  evil, but it is, as well,  a falling  into the heresy of schism ...a  sin which is not washed off, even by the blood of martyrdom in the Church" (Commentary on the Epistle to the Ephesians: 65, 11).

Свт. St. Игнатий (Брянчанинов):
 St. Ignatius (Bryanchaninov):

«смертный грех православного христианина, не уврачеванный должным покаянием, подвергает согрешившего вечной муке… Смертные грехи для христианина суть следующие: ересь, раскол, богохульство, отступничество… каждый из них умерщвляет душу и делает ее неспособною для вечного блаженства, доколе она не очистит себя покаянием» (Слово о смерти).
 "A mortal sin/deadly sin, for an  Orthodox Christian, if  not healed properly through repentance,  exposes the sinner to eternal torment. ... Mortal sins for a Christian are the following: heresy, schism, blasphemy, apostasy ...even  just one of them, by itself,  kills the soul and makes it unable to enjoy eternal bliss, if  the sinner  does not purify himself by repentance "(The word of the death).

Свт. St. Дионисий Александрийский:
 Dionysius of Alexandria:

«Если, как говоришь, ты отделился от Церкви невольно, то можешь доказать это возвращением в Церковь по своей воле
. "If, as you say, you have been  involuntarily  separated from the Church, then you can prove it, by your  individual return to the Church on your own.
Лучше было бы тебе все вытерпеть, лишь бы не рассечь Церкви Божией.
 It would be better for  you to suffer anything,  rather than for you to be  cut off  from The Church of God.
Не менее славы доставило бы тебе мученичество за целость ее, как и мученичество за отречение от идолов;
No less glory,  would it give you as your own martyrdom  for your spiritual integrity,  as would martyrdom because of your  renunciation of idols;
а по-моему, и еще более, потому что в последнем случае всякий принимает мучения за одну собственную душу, а в первом — за всю Церковь.
and in my opinion, and even more, because in the latter case, you just accept suffering for your  own soul's sake,  and in the first - on behalf of  the whole Church.
Если бы ты даже и теперь убедил и заставил братьев возвратиться к единению, то твоя доблесть была бы сильнее твоего зла.
 If you are even now convinced of your error, and you are now  influencing [schismatic]  brothers to return to unity, then your valor will be stronger than your evil.
 Последнее тогда не вменилось бы тебе, а первая заслужила бы похвалу.
The latter would then not be reckoned to you, and the first, for you  to deserve  praise.
 Но когда уже ты не в состоянии положиться на послушание братьев, то по крайней мере всячески спасай собственную душу» (письмо к раскольнику Новату, Церковная История Евсевия Памфила, VI, 45).
But if  you are not already able to rely on the obedience/repentance  of your schismatic  brothers, then at least by  every possible means, YOU need to escape the schism, for your own soul's sake "(letter to the dissenter Novato, Ecclesiastical History of Eusebius Pamphilus, VI, 45).

Св. Иоанн Кронштадтский:
 St. John of Kronstadt.:

«Достигай, человек, единства: всячески бегай духовного разделения… Единение — Бог.
 "Reach for-join with,  and be, a man of unity: but strongly flee spiritual separation ... Unity -is  God, and separation from the Church, is the Devil" 
Разделение — диавол. Separation
- the devil.
Разделение церквей — дело диавола;
Separation from the  Church - it is of the Devil;
ереси, расколы — дело диавола» (Моя жизнь во Христе. Часть II,9).
 Heresies, and schisms - are  of the
Devil " (My Life in Christ Movement II, 9.).

Свт. St. Ириней Лионский:
St. Irenaeus:

«Христос рассудит тех, которые производят расколы, — не имеющих любви к Богу и заботящихся больше о собственной выгоде, чем о единстве Церкви, по маловажным и случайным причинам рассекающих и разрывающих великое и славное тело Христово и, сколько от них зависит, разрушающих его, говорящих о мире и производящих брань» (Пять книг против ересей, 4.7).
 "Christ will judge those who make divisions, - doing so without the love of God and caring more about their own benefit, than the unity of the Church, and for  ACCIDENTAL AND UNIMPORTANT EXCUSES,  dissecting and tearing apart the great and glorious Body of Christ, and how much of this destruction from them, depends on destroying it by them, as they speak publically all around  the world and by  which they spread,  in  spoken and written words. "(Five books against heresies, 4.7).
Источник A source

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