Saturday, June 4, 2016

Conversation about Current Ecumenist Betrayal of Orthodoxy

Sharing A Revealing Conversation & Information About the Current Ecumenist Betrayal of Orthodoxy, here with added input from ROCA Reader John Busigin-

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Dan Everiss

Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 11:55 AM

Dear Rd. Daniel,
Christ is risen!

You may share and keep my name on it. 

Unfortunately the worldly orthodox have arrived at a very sad state; hopefully things are moving fast enough so that people wake up. Even so, unfortunately, I don't think we'll see the mass exodus predicted recently by our true inter-Orthodox meeting. Thank God for our faithful episcopacy!

Sent from my iPhone
ROCA Rd. John Busigin

On Jun 2, 2016, at 7:33 PM, Dan Everiss <> wrote:
Your thoughts expressed here, Rd. John, couldn't have said it better!
Rd. Daniel in Oregon

Subject: Re: General Informational Sharing: Just How Bad Matters Have Become!: Joint Committee of Orthodox and Catholic Bishops Convenes
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2016 18:59:08 -0400


Dear Rd. Daniel,

The worldly orthodox are not even hiding their agenda anymore. They have moved past that point. 

They quote Christ, "So that they may all be one, as you, Father, are in me and I in you … so that they may be one, as we are one” (Jn 17:21), but when asked to clarify what is meant by this, to "be one," they explicitly deny as a requirement unity of dogma or theology. 

"Met." Hilarion (Alfeyev), head of the MP Dept. of External Church Relations (DECR) makes this point very clear in a recent interview (my bold):

– Some Orthodox fear the rapprochement with the Catholics. They are concerned that there may be a complete fusion of the Orthodox and the Roman Catholic Churches. What would you say to these people?

– First of all, I would advise them to read carefully the declaration of the Pope and the Patriarch. It indicates the subjects of the conversation. There was no attempt of a doctrinal rapprochement and even no discussion on any dogmatic or theological issues. Currently this discussion is absolutely off the agenda. The declaration opens with a statement that a loss of unity commanded by God is opposed to Christ’s commandment voiced in His last high-priestly prayer: “May they all be one.” Unfortunately, Christians are not able to maintain this unity. Christians of East and West are divided and do not celebrate the Eucharist together.

Yet now it is not a question of overcoming this division, but of learning to live and to act in this world not as competitors, but as brothers, to work together in order to protect our common values, to jointly preach the Gospel and to reveal the Divine Truth to people. And this is what we can do together today. I appreciated the words of Raul Castro pronounced during his meeting with Patriarch Kirill, after the Patriarch had told him about their forthcoming encounter with the Pope. President Raul recalled an adage telling that any journey, even the longest one, starts with a first step. This first step is made. Now I hope that together the faithful of the two traditions will stand up for all that we have in common without any compromise with their conscience and without accepting any doctrinal compromise.
Share the post "Metropolitan Hilarion: Orthodox and Catholics must learn to act as brothers and not as competitors. 
This is explicit, dogma does not matter to them. 

Well, let's indeed read carefully. The recent Havana document, signed by the Pope and "Pat." Kyril-Gundayev,  (Agent Mihaelov), makes this abundantly clear:

Notwithstanding this shared Tradition of the first ten centuries, for nearly one thousand years Catholics and Orthodox have been deprived of communion in the Eucharist. We have been divided by wounds caused by old and recent conflicts, by differences inherited from our ancestors, in the understanding and expression of our faith in God, one in three Persons – Father, Son and Holy Spirit. [However, not withstanding these valid and Holy reasons of separation...] We are pained by the loss of unity, the outcome of human weakness and of sin, which has occurred despite the priestly prayer of Christ the Saviour: “So that they may all be one, as you, Father, are in me and I in you … so that they may be one, as we are one” (Jn 17:21).

If this point couldn't be more stated more clearly, later in the Havana document there is an explicit prohibition against  'professing our faith to Catholics', i.e. 'poaching':

This mission (to spread the Gospel) entails mutual respect for members of the Christian communities and excludes any form of proselytism....

Consequently, it cannot be accepted that disloyal means be used to incite believers to pass from one Church to another, denying them their religious freedom and their traditions.

The previous arguments that their dialogue and collaborations are meant to "witness Orthodoxy" hold no water. Their statements and actions, for many years and especially recently, are not subtle. 

It is critical to understand that doctrine does not matter to them. In my experience, in pointing out these doctrinal issues I am treated as childish, narrow-minded and unable to see their enlightened adult perspective. Prelest. Have you ever had a similar experience?

How anyone could claim to be Orthodox and believe any of these statements is beyond me.

Rd. John

1 comment:

  1. Archbishop Averky spoke about this false Orthodoxy:

    "One must realize and remember that Orthodoxy is not only and always that which is officially called "Orthodox", for our false and evil times the appearance everywhere of pseudo-Orthodoxy which raises its head and is established in the world is an extremely grievous but, regrettably, an already unquestioned fact. This false Orthodoxy strives fiercely to substitute itself for true Orthodoxy, as in his time Antichrist will strive to supplant and replace Christ with himself."